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1956 +4 radiator advice needed

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Malcmog Malcolm Skirrow
Vienna, Austria, Austria   AUT
I've just joined the forum, but have owned my car since 1972.
I have now had the radiator out for repair 3 times in 6 months. Its the old (TR?) type with a large water tank over the core. I also have an electric fan attached to the core.
The radiator has always been mounted on 2 brackets attached to the front of the chassis.
A flat steel bar welded to the bottom of the radiator sits on these brackets.
However the stresses of the bulkhead rods attached to the top of the radiator, the hard (but new) hoses and engine vibrations, and the mounting method on this steel bar, seem to be pulling the radiator apart at the seams.

I cannot find any references, instructions, photos or diagrams, telling me how the radiator should be attached.
Is there any sort of cushioning between the radiator and the chassis? If so - What? What was the original set up?
Can anyone offer advice or send me a photo of how it should be fixed?
Thanks
malcolm

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Morgan +4.png    469 KB
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SteveLandry Avatar
SteveLandry Steve Landry
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
Malcom,

There are two rubber isolators that cushion the radiator from the frame mounts. It is part 20 in the Morgan Spares online +4 catalog under cooling. Other LBCs may have used something similar, but I'm not aware. If you do have a TR3 radiator in your car, all bets are off! The diagrams in the Morgan Spares catalog should show whether you have the right one or not.

Steve

Malcmog Malcolm Skirrow
Vienna, Austria, Austria   AUT
Thanks Steve.
None of the radiators in the catalogue look like mine! But they would certainly solve my problem of undue stresses on brazed joints, as a result of the complex construction I have on top of mine.
Anyone got a spare +4 radiator for sale? (Europe)
The catalogue is a revelation. Thanks for the suggestion.
Malcolm
PS - I only suspected it was a TR radiator as the old boy who fixes mine locally said immediately, on first seeing it, "aah - is that from a TR?" But all outlets etc are in the right place for a Morgan.

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SteveLandry Avatar
SteveLandry Steve Landry
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
Malcom,

the TR3 radiators are all quite a bit taller than the Morgan radiator. If you can see the crankshaft bolt from the front, it won't be a TR3 radiator. Or maybe a re cored one.... There is a guy stateside that has been trying to sell a 4/4 radiator on eBay. It is the same size, but the outlets seem to be reversed (at least for a TR3 powered car). Or maybe it's the picture. It comes up from time to time, though I didn't see it this morning.

My radiator has a large-ish U-shaped steel plate running along the bottom and both sides, with the mount tabs on those. Does yours have these?

Steve

Malcmog Malcolm Skirrow
Vienna, Austria, Austria   AUT
Hi.
I can see the crank bolt behind the rad. So not TR.
Perhaps its a 1-off - but it looks like a proper radiator and not a homemade job.

All I have is a flat steel bar along the bottom of the radiator with a hole at each end.
This sits on top of, and bolts to the brackets, but its a bit high already so I cannot put much in between, by way of a damper.
I've tried fitting it below the radiator brackets but then the hose outlets are way too low to connect.
The set up has worked for the 40 years that I have had the car and the core has been replaced twice.
So I'm not sure why it is playing up now. Metal fatigue perhaps.
I might take my rad man a picture of the radiator in the +4 catalogue to see if he can fabricate something from scratch.
Cheers
Malcolm

SteveLandry Avatar
SteveLandry Steve Landry
Phoenix, AZ, USA   USA
Maybe you could lower the brackets an inch or so to accommodate the buffer. My X-Frame had three holes on each side to allow a high and low mounting position.

Steve

BuyBritish Rob D
Ipswich, Suffolk, UK   GBR
Hi I see that your plus 4 is a high cowl, I have a new high cowl radiator if you want to make contact.

we have a 1958 plus 4 and shes a low cowl, Im working on the temp gauge and sender which is an oddity because its not conventional ie it reads hot when all ignition is off

Temp sender needs to be about 25 ohms at running temp and lower still at ambient temps!

its electrical

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DuncanCharlton Avatar
DuncanCharlton Duncan Charlton
Elgin, Texas, USA   USA
1931 Morgan 3 Wheeler "Gwenda (Sold)"
1967 Morgan 4/4 "Toly's Car"
1967 Unknown Unknown
1970 Mini Countryman    & more
I can't help with Malcolm's radiator (I have one I'm not using, but I'm in Texas) but I'll try to post a photo later.

Re: Rob's sending unit, some Smiths gauge/sending unit combos are supposed to read hot when the ignition is off. I've attached the Smiths instruments booklet. On our 1957 Plus 4 the gauge would not read properly and I discovered that the sending unit was not a match for my gauge. The gauge had probably come from some other car and been fitted with a Morgan face but it would not read properly. I ended up buying a different sending unit which was close enough that I could adjust the gauge (and bend the needle slightly) to cause it to give the right reading when the motor was in the proper operating range.

The new sending unit would not fit in the same hole in the header tank but I noticed that the thermostat housing had a flat area on the front that looked like it could easily be drilled and tapped, and in that location it would measure temperature of coolant exiting the engine rather than radiator temp, so I removed the housing and installed the new sending unit there. I had to bend the electrical terminal 90 degrees to avoid being hit by the aftermarket plastic cooling fan but that was the only problem with the setup.


Attachments:
Smiths gauge manual.pdf    1.87 MB

DuncanCharlton Avatar
DuncanCharlton Duncan Charlton
Elgin, Texas, USA   USA
1931 Morgan 3 Wheeler "Gwenda (Sold)"
1967 Morgan 4/4 "Toly's Car"
1967 Unknown Unknown
1970 Mini Countryman    & more
For reference, this is a low-cowl Plus 4 radiator.

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BuyBritish Rob D
Ipswich, Suffolk, UK   GBR
And for reference this is a high cowl radiator see photos its available for sale if you wish

High cowl radiator for sale


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30213638580_29f27494c5_z.jpg    39.5 KB
30213638580_29f27494c5_z.jpg

Fred Winterburn Avatar
Ripley, Ontario, Canada   CAN
Malcolm, This was my solution to the tabs on the radiator breaking apart. Normally the only cushioning is from the rubber washers at the toolbox end of the radiator stays. I added some silicone rubber gasket material at the tab end as shown rather than bolt the stays directly to the tabs. Time will tell if this fix works, but so far, so good. See the photo of my 56 Plus 4 modification. Fred, Ripley, Ontario, Canada

In reply to # 81 by Malcmog I've just joined the forum, but have owned my car since 1972.
I have now had the radiator out for repair 3 times in 6 months. Its the old (TR?) type with a large water tank over the core. I also have an electric fan attached to the core.
The radiator has always been mounted on 2 brackets attached to the front of the chassis.
A flat steel bar welded to the bottom of the radiator sits on these brackets.
However the stresses of the bulkhead rods attached to the top of the radiator, the hard (but new) hoses and engine vibrations, and the mounting method on this steel bar, seem to be pulling the radiator apart at the seams.

I cannot find any references, instructions, photos or diagrams, telling me how the radiator should be attached.
Is there any sort of cushioning between the radiator and the chassis? If so - What? What was the original set up?
Can anyone offer advice or send me a photo of how it should be fixed?
Thanks
malcolm


Attachments:
Morgan_modified_radiator_stay.jpg    64 KB
Morgan_modified_radiator_stay.jpg

perry911113 Avatar
perry911113 Peter Perry
Rensselaer, NY, USA   USA
1951 MG TD "Barn Find SOLD"
1958 MG MGA 1500
1959 MG MGA "MGA Rally Car"
1970 MG MGB GT "SOLD"    & more
Please contact me if you are still having a radiator issue. I work at Morgan Motors of New England. We can furnish you a new aluminum radiator. It will solve your radiator problems once and for all.

Let me know if I can help.

Peter
518-210-1869

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