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Hard Top [California, USA]

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Hard Top [California, USA]
#1
Plus 4 Wanted
Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
Can I find a hard top for a sixties plus 4 in the USA? without it costing arm and a leg? Condition while unimportant it must be possible to restore Let me know

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Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 11688 by Broadcaster Can I find a hard top for a sixties plus 4 in the USA? without it costing arm and a leg? Condition while unimportant it must be possible to restore Let me know

I found one in the UK as evident in the photo :-)

galja2 james g
marseiles, IL, USA   USA
1970 MG MGB
You learn something everyday.
I didn't realise they existed.Very nice.

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Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
In reply to # 13790 by galja2 You learn something everyday.
I didn't realise they existed.Very nice.

As we say it in England They are as rare as "rocking horse droppings"
You would be lucky to find one
I searched for one for many years

GoMoG Avatar
GoMoG Lorne G
Cuenca, Azuay, Ecuador   ECU
In reply to # 13790 by galja2 You learn something everyday.
I didn't realise they existed.Very nice.

Yes.

But they have a sad reputation, especially if they were made for another Morgan or without the target car at hand. They don't say that "every Morgan is different from all others" for nothing though that may have changed since so many components are no longer made inhouse anymore.

They were originally made by Rutherford (yes the suspension guy). He sold the molds some years ago to another fellow in Germany, but I haven't heard of them from that source since. If you get a white one, there are often Factory stuff. The MMC began selling them when they came out with all those TOK copies they made in 2002/2003. They were a plague of problems with those. They would crack the windscreens and leak..like most of the do. However, theirs are made of carbon, and much lighter. I am not sure they still make them..but at their last prices, figure $6000 in your special car color.

And what does one do with them when the sun comes out? So they can only be used close to home or for racing (in which case check your lap times with and without).

They can also be very pretty.

gmg

galja2 james g
marseiles, IL, USA   USA
1970 MG MGB
Thank you very much for these information .to me clearly not worth the $6000 and what to do when the sun comes out!
Thanks again

Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
Hopefully I can enlighten all

I validate most of all what Lorne says and he knows I respect his opinions as a Morgan aficionado

That said I always wanted a Morgan BRG with scoop and hard top and wire wheels and cheap :-) and I scoured the world for 8 years with no success
I even thought building one with a basket full (that is now my brother's a different story for another time)
Then I thought if I can buy the bits I need until I find the right car........(yes buy steering wheel before the car) I tried Rutherford no luck, I traced Mathias who bought the molds in Germany spoke to him at 2 in the morning California time for 2 hours....indeed his tops cost $6K but what put me off was the fact that they may be small or large and building Morgans at the time (fifties and sixties ) was not an exact science.
I also ran into a gentleman whose name escapes me but at some stage he ran a company called something like Black Phobie or something in the country side in the UK who used to build hard tops. He was in his eighties and reluctant to help. I even tried to persuade his daughter to persuade him but that attempt failed too.

I eventually traced one item somewhere I think in Worcestershire where there was one ...I never paid the $6K ..but I got it to the USA in one piece as you can see in my pictures.

what followed that was a series of fortunate events and I ended up with the car in the picture.

The day arrived when the car was in my possession and for the first time we put the top on it ............effing fitted like a glove no problems ...that was a bit of luck...(take the risk and it may pay off )

As the top had no securing fixtures you can put anything you like to secure it. So I have made it in such a way that it can be fitted and removed easily.

I like to drive the car to shows making it look like the TOK...at least cosmetically. This top allows me to do that for a day or so but I can remove it for the rest of the time. Cracking the screen? If you don't drive it often with the top then the risk is minimal. Mine is fiber glass with a lot of flexibility and indeed it looks pretty and is very light . I pick it up with one hand. My car is NEVER driven in rain it is in a space with a dehumidifier but even in the coldest day I will go topless with tonneau cover covering all except the drivers seat but arrive at shows looking like the TOK 258 although inside there is a Triumph engine with 2 SUs and old fire extinguisher which works, spot lights Le Mans Gas filler cap, original CA 1963 licence plate, and a rear GB signs which lights up when the lights are switched on.

I am happy with my find :-) I have said it elsewhere "I will starve first before I part with this car"

GoMoG Avatar
GoMoG Lorne G
Cuenca, Azuay, Ecuador   ECU
In reply to # 13797 by Broadcaster ...I always wanted a Morgan BRG with scoop and hard top and wire wheels and cheap :-) and I scoured the world for 8 years with no success
I traced Mathias who bought the molds in Germany spoke to him at 2 in the morning California time for 2 hours....indeed his tops cost $6K but what put me off was the fact that they may be small or large and building Morgans at the time (fifties and sixties ) was not an exact science.

Matthias Kaufelt? He is a very sweet human being. Famous for his Morgan dashes. But he is not the German fella I remember buying David (Rutherford's) molds.

Quote: I also ran into a gentleman whose name escapes me but at some stage he ran a company called something like Black Phobie

Black Phey. aka Vic Champoness. http://www.classiccarwebsite.com/black-phey-ltd Makes some great parts for Morgans. I used some in the restoration of our Plus 8 in the UK.

Quote: I eventually traced one item somewhere I think in Worcestershire where there was one ...I never paid the $6K ..but I got it to the USA in one piece as you can see in my pictures. what followed that was a series of fortunate events and I ended up with the car in the picture. The day arrived when the car was in my possession and for the first time we put the top on it ............effing fitted like a glove no problems ...that was a bit of luck...(take the risk and it may pay off )

Wonderful!!!!

Quote: I like to drive the car to shows making it look like the TOK...at least cosmetically. This top allows me to do that for a day or so but I can remove it for the rest of the time. Cracking the screen? If you don't drive it often with the top then the risk is minimal. Mine is fiber glass with a lot of flexibility and indeed it looks pretty and is very light . I pick it up with one hand. My car is NEVER driven in rain it is in a space with a dehumidifier but even in the coldest day I will go topless with tonneau cover covering all except the drivers seat but arrive at shows looking like the TOK 258 although inside there is a Triumph engine with 2 SUs and old fire extinguisher which works, spot lights Le Mans Gas filler cap, original CA 1963 licence plate, and a rear GB signs which lights up when the lights are switched on.
I am happy with my find :-) I have said it elsewhere "I will starve first before I part with this car"

No argument. They ARE pretty! You have to forgive me..I am the original Devil's Advocate and I am a long distance mogger. Most of the mileage I have done involve many many weeks in a Morgan.

Thank you for the other perspective.

Lorne

Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
Hi Lorne

The pictures Mathias sent me showed 6 or 6 hard tops in various formats of built . He may not be the original buyer of the mouldings but he has them now. Nice guy to talk to but not very decisive. This is by no means of criticism but an observation.

Black Phey

I can assure you does not matter how many times you call that number there never is an answer I mean 9-5 Mon to Friday British time...that means I get up middle of the night to make the call. I learnt that he has now retired ..He must be in his eighties

For me to be able to drive a car confidently I need to make certain all things are good
I need to change the +ve earth to -ve, change Dynamo to alternator , get rid of the control box, change the single circuit brake to twin, and put geoffs shed steering dampers, attend to the rear shock absorbers before I can drive it miles and miles albeit in dry California as I would never take it to the rain

Between you and me {and the goal post :-) } I used to live in Malvern up until 20 years ago and regularly went to Pheasant Inn the pub not far away from the Morgan Company. At the time I drove an XK120 which I built from parts over 10 year period. In the USA I often was home sick so any time I feel I need to reminiscent I go to the garage and just sit in the Morgan...I don't even need to drive it . It make me feel at home. Other times I drive to the cars and coffee every Saturday where there is a remarkable presence of British cars a few of them I have met on this site and are really good bunch. I get to drive the car there and back (about 24 miles) and that my friend is a therapy like no other.

GoMoG Avatar
GoMoG Lorne G
Cuenca, Azuay, Ecuador   ECU
In reply to # 13804 by Broadcaster Hi Lorne

The pictures Mathias sent me showed 6 or 6 hard tops in various formats of built . He may not be the original buyer of the mouldings but he has them now. Nice guy to talk to but not very decisive. This is by no means of criticism but an observation.

Different Matthias than my friend Kalf. https://bit.ly/2WcIACz

Quote: Black Phey I can assure you does not matter how many times you call that number there never is an answer I mean 9-5 Mon to Friday British time...that means I get up middle of the night to make the call. I learnt that he has now retired ..He must be in his eighties

There are many Morgan suppliers like that. Frustrating.

Quote: For me to be able to drive a car confidently I need to make certain all things are good
I need to change the +ve earth to -ve, change Dynamo to alternator , get rid of the control box, change the single circuit brake to twin, and put geoffs shed steering dampers, attend to the rear shock absorbers before I can drive it miles and miles albeit in dry California as I would never take it to the rain

Forgive me. I admit to not being a fan of steering dampers. In 25 years of helping people sort front end problems, I have found they are not necessary. But more people no longer seem to have the time to patiently sort their suspensions. And now the even the new owners of modern mogs look for shortcuts. First, they make their front hyper sensitive with super expensive addons and then they have to deal with the GoMoG's Deadly Domino Effect. Did you know that the original dampening system was designed as a friction damper?

Now the trend is to remove friction from the front end without limit. The obvious results. That makes two reasons for sad front vibration, the old one being an unsorted front, and the second being an over-sorted front. From the GoMoG Help Line, I estimate the requests for such advice are now 50-50. Morgans needing help to resolve the traditional vibration problems and Morgans suffering from the effects of addons. I have been asked to start a new GoMoG section for the latter!

Quote: Between you and me {and the goal post :-) } I used to live in Malvern up until 20 years ago and regularly went to Pheasant Inn the pub not far away from the Morgan Company. At the time I drove an XK120 which I built from parts over 10 year period. In the USA I often was home sick so any time I feel I need to reminiscent I go to the garage and just sit in the Morgan...I don't even need to drive it . It make me feel at home. Other times I drive to the cars and coffee every Saturday where there is a remarkable presence of British cars a few of them I have met on this site and are really good bunch. I get to drive the car there and back (about 24 miles) and that my friend is a therapy like no other.

I have never lived near other collector cars. Quebec is a space larger than all Western Europe with 3-4 Morgans (up from only mine up to 20 years ago!) South America has one Morgan in Argentina. If anyone asks, I tell them our Morgan is a kit.

I have traveled too far. I never get homesick anymore. Home is wherever my wife and I happen to be. But I understand your feeling. When I still used to be afflicted, being in a Morgan was as good as being home.

gmg

Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
Steering Dampers

The car I got is absolutely unmolested. The guy changed the oil every 3 months regardless of miles and took care of everything. In almost 60 years the car had less than 80K miles on the clock
Now I am proficient with electrons, but mechanically I am a zero. So I do not understand any of it . Technical expertise where I am is scarce and almost all old school mechanics are either retired or have passed away. The local Morgan experts want to become multimillionaires on the back of the Morgans so what is one to do? People who have dampers swear by it and when I looked at it attaching it was simple enough even to me with no hands on knowledge of the car and without no one to learn from I am on my own with a car that if it breaks down mechanically I am screwed

now your last sentence proves to me that you have felt what I feel in that car and like I have said elsewhere I did not chose the Morgan ....it chose me

Happy Motoring Lorne and thanks for your contribution to our hobby and custodianship

GoMoG Avatar
GoMoG Lorne G
Cuenca, Azuay, Ecuador   ECU
In reply to # 13807 by Broadcaster
......but mechanically I am a zero. So I do not understand any of it. ....and almost all old school mechanics are either retired or have passed away. The local Morgan experts want to become multimillionaires on the back of the Morgans so what is one to do? People who have dampers swear by it and when I looked at it attaching it was simple enough even to me with no hands on knowledge of the car and without no one to learn from I am on my own with a car that if it breaks down mechanically I am screwed..

I used to be like you feel. I couldn't figure out which was the business end of a screwdriver. (GRIN!) But expert mechanics were not be found within 100 miles, even back them, and my first experiences with them were sad (to say the least).

I was retired and determined to learn (not much choice). And I quickly caught on that my range and scope with a Morgan was severely limited unless I could fix it roadside, ANYWHERE. Inevitably, the cars became bullet-proof and infinitely comfy. The reason for that is very simple, the very best mechanic for your beloved Morgan is an owner who finds it beloved. You care more than anyone else for your Morgan and therefore, skills or not, you will be the most conscientious for it. You will not take shortcuts. You will buy the best components for it, you will take all the time it needs. And if you need help, you have the best in the world help you an email away.

There is something else to think of in this soon-to-be-skilless world. Nothing in your dwelling ever breaks down other than Friday or New Years Eve. It is SO much more convenient dealing with such things yourself. If you can fix a Morgan, there is nothing in a house beyond you. And if you travel the world, you can be as comfortable as you want to be and where you land. You are not at the mercy of local customs, language and your own helplessness. Try it. You'll like it. There is also a delicious feeling of accomplishment in fixing things.

That being said..the world has changed. Sorry to give you a hard time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-23 03:20 PM by GoMoG.

Broadcaster Avatar
Broadcaster Silver Member Bob RA
Glendale, CA, USA   USA
You speak the reality Lorne

In my profession electronics we cannot get a youngster who is prepared to learn schematics. They all want to start at the top and work their way to the bottom
My 18 year old twins say "why do we need to get our hands dirty when in the span of 1/2 hour we can make $800 on Stock option trading and take the rest of the day off? I have no answer for that
You think you are giving me hard times ? those twins are the reason I am bald {tearing my hair out} :-)

My other enemy is time at work. I have to ensure that we have enough work to feed 7 employees and their families. My Morgan rests at work so whenever I get 1/2 hour I go there and I say to myself "if I accomplish 1 item per day I would eventually complete all the tasks" ...but in 1/2 hour I just get ready to delve in and then it is time to go back...frustrating . Enough moaning and groaning Bob! says he quietly

GoMoG Avatar
GoMoG Lorne G
Cuenca, Azuay, Ecuador   ECU
In reply to # 13809 by Broadcaster You speak the reality Lorne

In my profession electronics we cannot get a youngster who is prepared to learn schematics. They all want to start at the top and work their way to the bottom
My 18 year old twins say "why do we need to get our hands dirty when in the span of 1/2 hour we can make $800 on Stock option trading and take the rest of the day off?

I have twin boys as well. They are flying down tomorrow to visit their parents! They are 31.

My son-in-low owns a very successful plumbing company covering Montreal's richest district. The starting salaries his guys make are double what a physician can find at the outset. But he is constantly looking for more plumbers..he is now searching outside Canada.

The problem most people don't see is that we have become helpless in the world we live in. I didn't realize that pre-Morgan. A helpless market is the dreamed-of goal for any manufacturer. They see it as a gift that keeps on giving. winking smiley

Working on your Morgan will cure that. Quite amazing. It also makes adventures safe. There was a time when traveling in Morgan entailed (for me) the risk of breaking down 1000s of miles from home or anyone with the expertise to fix it. Now, if that happened, Audrey is secretly delighted as she can wander off and shop and discover new friends in the minutes it takes me to sort whatever is amiss. Duncan or Button can tell you, that they most often know what is wrong before they roll their Morgan to a stop. Eventually, it is the same for your dishwasher, dryer, furnace....

I could go on forever... (and usually do!)

Britmog Bruce M
Evergreen, CO, USA   USA
1964 Morgan 4/4 "Megan"
1994 Morgan Plus 8 (+8) "Maurice"
2013 Morgan 3 Wheeler "Olga"
Lorne,

I agree my Nephew is a Master Pipe Fitter, he works all over the world is never out of work and commands an executive salary. Currently working in the US on a major refinery project managing a team of 10, all expenses paid, expat status in the UK and earning $250,000. They just can't find the skilled workers anymore, he never went to University but took an apprenticeship straight from school, he's aged 39.

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