Morgan +4 Forum

Well, again, misinformation. Let's get this straight. Lorne is starting his own site because, on the existing sites, NO ONE WANTS HIM AROUND, and he has to have a place to be. This is not the first time for him. This has been going on even before I bought the +8. My Morgan friends warned me about him, and what sites to avoid.

While i applaud the formation of another Morgan site that is dedicated to Trads, it is looking like a dead end. Morgan owners are getting old, and many of them no longer post, anywhere. Many of their cars have been sold out of their family trusts, the younger members of the family no longer interested. This was pointed out in the latest Road and Track Morgan +4 article. That's me in the group shot, white shirt way in the back, near the Alfa 4C. Anyway, the Morgan club is 70 years old, but there are no new members. No young Morgan owners. In that group, I am the "kid". Not because I am a newbie (doesn't make any difference to those guys), but because I am under 80... Anyway, good luck with the new site. I would love to see it attract younger owners to Morgans.

After all, I bought one, but then, I am old. I am hoping that a proper +8, shown in the right places will pick up interest. It worked for me with the Nobles, Rossions, and the Renaults, which have increased in value over the last few years.

But the real problem is aggressive misinformation. Lorne makes up stuff to suit his arguments. Oh, and he is obsessed with me, so much that he tells tales on other sites. I have been involved with this Morgan site for about 7 years and involved with my Morgan for a little longer. To Lorne, that makes me a "newbie". But he still doesn't really know my decades of Morgan involvement, or my knowledge of Morgans and their mechanical character, design and content. If you really look at the thread, you can see the problem with misinformation and the condescending tone.

Lorne claims that he and Dennis 'Knew about my car for "ages" Total BS. (He is bringing Dennis into this? Really?Bill Fink sold the car to the previous owner). He knows what he has gleaned from the factory build record, which turns out was incorrect, nothing more. If he knew anything about my car, he would have told me the most interesting things about it, but he didn't. Every detail that he would mention was incorrect, and would argue about it. From the width of the chassis to the radiator configuration, he got it all wrong. Even when presented with a picture of the cooling system configuration, he was unable to see what the problem was (and it was obvious). And then told me that what I was doing was incorrect, and would endanger other Morgan owners.

What Dennis knew about the car came from the pages of owner written "invoices", most of which were fabricated. I do not blame Dennis for this. It was what the owner sent along with the car. I wanted a specific sort of early +8, with a sound chassis and fresh engine and gearbox. I inspected the car with Dennis, and got the deal that I wanted. It was the second car that I had purchased from Dennis, and I may buy another. Dennis and I have known each other for quite a while (decades, now). Much longer than Lorne would know. Dennis supplied me with press cars for my Morgan articles numerous times, without limitations. He also knew that I would take the press cars to my editors, and that they bought new Morgans at my recommendation. How many? Two +8s and an Aero. On the same day.

Anyway, the trials, tribulations and success of my +8 relationship are in my thread, which Lorne hates, because it is long, and detailed. 34+ pages. It has everything that I had done, what I found, and how things were corrected. It really shows Loren in a bad light, and he has been scrubbing his posts from it. I don't mind, as I intend to use this as a diary of my car's restoration. I don't need his argumentative input. The story continues.

I have had lots of discussions about Morgans, fuel injection systems, tires, dampers and chassis setup with several forum members. However, Lorne is usually never a part of the discussion as it always degenerates into a "danger to Morgan owners". Every f'n time.

Lorne's characterization of my car is another crock. The reality is that it is a multi owner steel body +8, with a 4bbl intake and carb (Buick intake), a wood dash (since covered back to original) and a couple of rally clocks. It is not a "special model" (I sure wish it was), and not of a "limited run" unless you are talking about the entire 436 (or so) early, narrow track +8s. Lorne's lack of knowledge about the car was a bit of an amusement for me. Lorne all but accused me of lying about the car's configuration, but in the end, a few years later, finally admitted that his knowledge of the early +8s was limited, as he didn't have one. And, if it was "special", why should that be a problem for Lorne? He is the font of all Morgan knowledge. He SHOULD know all about my "special" car, but he doesn't. If he knows anything about the early +8s now, he probably learned it from a newbie...
As it turns out...

My car was not highly modified. It had a wood dash (not standard), with a pair of rally clocks that Dennis added, old style alloy rad, and a 4bbl carburetor. Dennis supplied invoices for his shop work, which included partially installed, new wiring loom, and evidence of aggressive neglect by the previous owner. There were a few missing pieces, including a license plate light and the rear view mirror. I requested that no other work be done, as I needed to learn this car as quickly as possible. None of the systems on the car were unfamiliar to me (which was good, as none worked properly), from the mis tuned GM/Rover V8 to the Lucas wiring. The cooling system had to be reconfigured, but Lorne was no help with that, giving me all sorts of incorrect information, from the configuration of the radiator to the workings of the temp gauge, and the wiring of the fan and temp switch type and location. He promised that I would have a surprise when I reclolcked the distributor (the vac advance can was hard against the intake) to set the timing (off by 14º), yet would not tell me what that would be, obviously thinking that I would disconnect the oil pump and blow up the engine... Nice, right? Incomplete information was Lorne's trademark. 'Good thing that I knew about the oil pump drive (not a factor because...) and just reset the plug wires, rotating the distributor, bringing the timing into spec. Nothing teaches faster than wrenching on one's own car, especially with 50 or so years of experience with British machines from BMC to Rolls Royce. Electrical problem? Check the wiring scheme and replace the faulty component. When I posted what I had learned, and what I fixed, Lorne started an argument (hardly "collegiate debate" about everything that I posted, from the width of the chassis to the configuration of the radiator, to the engine timing and the installation of a thermostatic cooling fan switch. All stuff that he got wrong. And then, he accused me of endangering Morgan owners and damaging their cars (that I had never even seen, let alone touched)... In the end, finally, a few years later, he admitted that GoMog had little information about the early +8, and that his own information was limited, to say the least. I did get excellent information from members of this forum, as well as from Morgan owners in person. These bits of hands on knowledge did speed my understanding of my car's systems, and made the repairs much easier. Lorne was no help at all.

The funniest part? Lorne 'Knew my car for "ages"? He couldn't even get the driver's side of my +8 right. 'Had to show him a picture of my 4 year old daughter looking under the tonneau for the steering wheel. "No Popai, It isn't here"... Cute, but it really bothered Lorne. So, in short, no, he didn't know my car for ages... He didn't know anything about it, even the Morgan part, at all... But I am sure that he does now.

From the get go, he was a total horse's patoot. He said that every part that Dennis supplied would not fit. (every part fit, from the rear dampers to the scuttle hoop to the headers and the thermo switch for the fan). Other Morgan owners, before I had taken deilviey of the car, had told me about Lorne, and as it turned out, I was not surprised by the lovely reception... Those guys were right!

Lorne likes to pontificate about the things that he knows about. Like my car (that he has never seen), or my relationship with Dennis, which is a bit longer than he guesses... His vile attitude is well know throughout the internet. He has been disassociated from all of the current Morgan sites, and those he still frequents he knows that he is not really appreciated, and for good reason (apologizing for every post). The fact is that numerous Morgan owners have left because of his treatment of Morgan owners who won't kiss the ring. Many on sites that I have never visited or posted on. And when a site disowns him, he blames the site for not being "Trad" centered. Maybe not being Lorne centered.

And then...

He says that a good site doesn't depend on having good answers. Well, that is telling. The problem is that he shows disrespect for those wrenching on their own Morgans, and that is the real problem. There are not that many owners left as they age out of the cars. Most of the posts now are about newer owners who need Morgan specific service, though that is mostly an impossibility to find. Fortunately, Morgans are made up of he same bits as early Healys, Jags, MGs, Triumphs... and yes, even Buicks. It is important to point this out to new owners, and have accurate parts exchanges and proper explanations as to how to do stuff, even it it includes using modern tools and labor saving techniques. A few owners have found local mechanics for their cars and have had good results.

I produced my sesquipedalian thread for younger owners who might acquire a Morgan and want to know what to expect. My experience is not unique. My car presented a decades worth of problems, all at once, to be fixed as i enjoyed the car. Lots of stuff to do. Funny that when i finally got the car to a nice driving condition, the clutch carbon disintegrated. Ok, now I can put the rest of the parts on the car, along with another 100 HP. Yes, then it will be "modified" and a far better machine than it is now. But it will look the same. It will have more character, and a 13 flat (quicker?) quarter mile. Not bad for 1969. The handling will be improved as well with the negative camber front end, longer steering tie rod, and tube rear dampers. Maybe it gets a new steering box if the funds become available. Then, via my thread, Lorne will know all about my car.

Yes, social media can be brutal. But all of this has nothing to do with me. He was bothering Morgn owners way before I arrived.

With 30,000 Morgan owners, Lorne's site should be very active... or not. Participation is but a fraction of registrations. He will get a few, until they get old or trade their Trads for Lucids as they age out of their cars. Maybe their kids want to keep them, provided that they are not over 70 themselves. Good luck with that. We need younger owners of Trads, who can be encouraged to do their own work.

This site has about 20 active members. How many of the total subscribers still have cars is a good question. How many cars are actually being driven?

We shall see, won't we...

I posted about the L Jet fuel injection, mentioning how it works and what component to look at. In fact, the information is the same as the Bosch L Jet tech manual. Nothing dangerous (unless you are poking around with a screwdriver or a volt meter). Nothing out of the ordinary, and the person who initiated the post was happy, and had some information to bother his shop tech with. The information was current, and accurate.

Lorne offered a bit of information that was a non sequitur, as he didn't actually read the post completely. Too bad that he didn't actually offer up any useful information. You know, like the problem of starting is likely tied to the starting system, which is initiated by a temp sensor that can fail after, say, around 25 years. Oh, never mind...

So...


You have a "membership", that is "renewed"?

Who knew?

You can sop reading now as his is a long post. Or, feel free to continue, but no complaints. You have been warned.

I write long form for a living. Lots of instruction manuals or magazine articles around 3500 words. So yes I sort of own that.

So when has Lorne offered a simple answer to anything? And that logo and all those cars that he no longe ownes. Heck, when has he actually offered a real answer?
Three lines could have easily covered his new site announcement. Instead, he had to mention me, Dennis Glavis, an unbelievable relationship with my car, (as in "don't believe it 'cause it ain't true" and his usual character attacks, that are completely unnecessary, as well as being a lovely tergiversation. Hey, this goes back 7 years, and he initiated it.You are joining at the end (really, the end? And here he is again)... He could have just said that it's time for a comprehensive Trad site and left it at that. But, you know Lorne...

As Lorne knows, most Morgans require more than a few sentences to describe a repair or service procedure. Just read anything he writes. Long, (BTW, this is not a fault) often meandering through Morgan family history but not completely covering the subject (fault!). Then, he is not always up today on the latest tools, such as a vacuum fill and test tool for the +8's hard to purge cooling systems, or pressure brake bleed systems that eliminate pedal pumping (one tool is cheap the other a little dear, but not too bad, especially as it can purge a Morgan +8 cooling system in a couple of minutes). Then he often leaves the subject to accuse someone of endangering Morgan owners, damaging the cars with words, or causing someone's death. His posts are no shorter than mine, but less to the point. Often, he leaves out some important part of the procedure. GoMog has that problem on some of the articles as well. On his former sites (where I have never posted or joined), many of the members cite this same problem that you attribute to me, only they wonder about the personal attacks.

I also post on a UK site for Westfield 11s. Those guys are builders and love detailed instructions. They LOVE my posts. The moderator visits me a couple of times a year for a Westfield drive, or a canyon rip in the R5Turbo. We discuss the latest suspension setup, or what changes I may have made to my now 45 year old 11. Great fun.

Most owners want to know how to do the work, or to understand the problem that they are having with the Morgan. Short form is for those who farm the work out to "experts". And if you are an expert yourself, excellent! I didn't write the post for you, anyway.

I build everything myself, so I am happy to describe the entire process. Wait until you see the engine build, and the new Brake Bleeding Made Easy video using the "dangerous' pressure brake bleeding unit. You will see how it connects, the extraordinary high pressure of 15 psi forcing the brake fluid into the system and expelling the air. An operation fraught with danger, cap twisting, hand pumping a few times, and fluid bleeding. I think that I will make a Netflix movie out of it. But, of course, you will hate it, but I don't care. You can feel free to believe Lorne's characterization that a pressure bleeder is connected like a heart/lung machine... (it isn't).

See, my wife doesn't hug and kiss me if I make her stomp on the brake pedal over and over... Or, she probably would not, as I have never asked for her help to do that mine numbing exercise. I have a tool that does the work, in just a few minutes, and its clean... I don't even need to wear gloves.

I don't blame you if you don't want to "renew", but internet history shows that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Like the other sites that Lorne has started, the new one may end up as they always have (for profit, and unhappy). Especially when all those old guys sell their cars, or just gets bored of the 'net. You know, after a while, you can visit real Morgan owners, and call others on the phone. Really, unless we get YOUNGER MORGAN OWNERS, this all goes nowhere. Especially since new Morgans are over $100K.

I remember a joke about an old Jew, shipwrecked for years on a desert island. He had built two synagogues on the island in which to worship. His rescuers asked "Why?", He said, "I left the first one because I didn't agree with their policies..." Or, "This one I go to , that one I don't go near..".

It's a cultural thing... By this time next year, you will get it.

You have to admire the pomposity of all the written diarrhea, mine is sooo muuch bigger than yours when in reality it is sooo smaaall. It must be such a sad lonely world to live in suffering from the Napoleon syndrome.

Not sure that "admire" is the correct term...

Tend not to visit much here, as it often becomes the public squabble board for a couple of people who'd probably manage to cause an argument in an empty room with a mirror.

TM is a fabulous community and I've been spared hundreds of pounds and hours due to the good advice. Often from real experts/engineers who stand by their own work, rather than hanging from the coat-tails of other Morgan owners. I now attempt to help and support on TM with my own knowledge and personal experience. Like most of the true engineers, I try to be precise and concise. No-one is interested in once upon a story rubbish, and what I had for breakfast in 1983.

Google groups is good (but quiet), and was once touted as being the home of the true Morgan specialists, until someone left in a strop due to people asking him to stop posting rubbish.

The best place for Morgan experts is the Morgan History Group on Facebook. What those guys don't know about Morgans isn't worth knowing. Good solid advice without any self aggrandisment and waffle.

Sven,

My 1986 +4 with the Bosch unit had all of the problems you mentioned. Sometimes would start, often not, etc.,etc. Spent hours trying to figure it out and countless $ at the shop.

The car has a simple on/off switch fitted on the board behind the seats over the diff tunnel. This was fitted, at my request when I bought the car new from the factory. Simple on/off with the removable red key.

In the garage I simply would turn off the key, leaving it in the unit. After months of trying to figure out the starting and running issues I turned the key off and took it out. The next time I got in the car I forgot to insert the key and turn to on position. With key out and unit off--it started.

I bought a new unit, installed it and never had another problem. No idea that something so simple could go bad. Two things I noted: on the two seater the + pole of the battery is toward the center of the car so the on/off was wired to the positive side of the battery. Since it has an electric clock there is a 16 amp fuse bridge. So, in theory if you try to start with the key out you blow the fuse but car should not start. The instructions on the replacement unit said to wire on the negative side. Whether this has any long term effect I have no idea. But it solved my problem. The old one was good for about 28 years-then it wasn't. I wired the new one like the factory did on the + side.

Sometimes the simple things!

TomS

Hello to all the helpful people here. THANK YOU! You're great.

My English is not so perfect, I see now, that I will have a lot of work copying al into the translator.
I'll start tomorrow with the easiest thing, of course, and that's the battery and the circuit breaker.
It would be really nice if it were something the simple things for once...

Best Regards
Sven

Yes. Me too. The venom with which SJM1 writes dismays me as does others. Never seen anything like it (but once) in 35 years. I have tried everything I could think of with no
luck..even using experts to analyze his replies. As this forum chooses to post even technical replies to the world I have decided not to post for fear of more errors and more vitriol.

It was a hard decision for me to decide to open a (non-public) forum for trad owners only. I have not had a week in more than 14 years when someone hasn't asked me to re-open
eMog, the Community, Dealers or the Works. The true experts, have gone underground since. And I can't handle another eMog. It had too much traffic. Moggers need to socialize!

I am hoping that the Garage will restrict itself to trads and be something I can handle. I hope It will broaden GoMoG by elaborating on where needed.

P.S. I think I discovered a clue.


He perceives me as "the old Jew". That is a first.

Lorne

Oh, I think you have. I've only been on Morgan Forums and Google Chats for about 5 years but I've seen you create pointless arguments with many people on many topics on every forum you've frequented.


I think your new forum will be perfect for you. Your own little fiefdom where you can control everything people say. Meanwhile, the rest of us Morgan enthusiasts can get on with fettling and fixing our cars in the other forums, free from interference. It's a win:win situation and I wish you every success.

Oh, now that I'm reading this, I seem to have brought up some old, unpleasant topics with my question. I didn't mean to! Sorry!

We're all car enthusiasts, and I don't think anyone here is intentionally giving bad advice. And if there are any disagreements, they can be quickly resolved via email, not like this.

As someone with not-so-great language skills, I've wasted time reading about old problems!
Gentlemen, I might as well talk to my wife.

So, please give advice and don't argue.

You didn't get the joke.Lorne. Figures... Now you have gone a bit too far.

Not someone who is an "old jew", but rather someone that doesn't understand (or can't stand) his own policies. Should I explain the various Morgan sites, and finally your own site?

Like I said, cultural. Only a certain culture would use that joke, and only certain cultures would understand the humor. Self deprecating humor. And, applied to you, it's pretty funny.

But if being even thought of as old or Jewish is a problem for you, well... That says far more about you than it does about an Old Jew (Morgan driver) like me.

Talk about venom...
At least I am not beating up Morgan owners on other sites. I am not the only one who has noticed.

BTW, Happy New Year, Shana Tovah. 5786

And you are still OLD.

You know, if you just stuck to the technical, and understand that others can do the same work using different techniques (a result of professional experience and lots of hands on exposure), you would not be in this mess. Just because someone uses a vacuum cooling system fill unit, prefers to use oil coolers to control high engine oil temps, and uses pressure to bleed brake and cutch systems so that the job can be done one handed, doesn't mean that other Morgan owners can be "endangered" or their cars "damaged" (hardly "collegiate debate". Some of us actually know more about what fits our cars than you do, and have experiences dealing with other Marques that directly fit Morgan care and feeding. Some of us know more about our cars (and those of others) than you do. You could learn, but instead, you just attack the owner. 'Make up stuff about how you know about their car for "ages"... Truth be told, you know YOUR cars, and have some experience that might fit our cars. 7 f'n years, and you just don't stop. You said you were leaving. You have not added anything constructive to this forum for some time, only posting to troll me, but first apologizing for even being here after saying that you would not come back.
I am just working on my Morgan, making it the best it can be, using all I have learned from all of the decades that I have been playing with classic cars, working in shops and running my own restoration specialty business. I don'r restore Morgans, but I am writing about the experience of getting a Morgan, and then sorting it out. It is a story useful to new Morgan owners, or owners who might want to purchase a used Morgan.

Man, you have no idea as to how much I would love to have a knowledgable Morgan fanatic around with good ideas and techniques that I don't know about, yet. Someone who has actually spun a wrench for themselves, and perhaps for others.
There are several Morgan sites that you could post on, but you are not always accepted there anymore. And now you want to do your own. Excellent! Good luck with that. A Leopard doesn't change its spots. Read the joke again...

And, on this thread, at least a couple of owners have fixed their cars, maybe. WHAT HAVE YOU CONTRIBUTED?

How about how changing the battery master switch might have something to do with the car's starting? A successful fix for a couple of owners. Alternator cut off relay circuit (is there one?) Low voltage during the starting process? Is the cutoff switch the problem, or perhaps an old temp sensor, maybe a corroded connector?
Modern mechanics are often flummoxed with fuel injections that they can't plug a scan tool into and just identify a bad component. They perhaps don't have the factory (Bosch) manual, or don't understand the system to start with. Simple guidance and technical information us usually the way to a fix, and there are components that can be easily replaced and are not expensive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-09-30 01:48 PM by SJM1.

Sven,
Your English is fine. No problems at all. Sorry for the interruption.

You can learn much about the L Jetronic fuel Injection by finding the Bosch Technical Manual for the L Jetronic fuel injection. Often, you can find them on the internet or you can purchase them from various book sellers.

Here is one that I recommend, from an excellent technical writer. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Fuel-Injection-Engine-Management/dp/0837603005/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3DP6TTSEPC8EY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.yu_fZQX0-Xk9KTAFu6fUVW3FdyhOPVtsTM639qi3_z3GjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.qUC00QAuIwIa8IpmxDVT5j-pxs4ag5pmbEEgAxEShms&dib_tag=se&keywords=Bosch+fuel+injection+technical+manual&qid=1759258650&sprefix=bosch+fuel+injection+technical+manual%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-1

This, along with the tips from other owners about their battery cutoff switches might give you help with finding the problem.
Stable voltage to the engine on start up is critical, along with having working sensors for cold starting.

Hello Jan,
Thank you for the help and the link. Great!
Best Regards Sven

quote=SJM1,25362,28975] You can learn much about the L Jetronic fuel Injection by finding the Bosch Technical Manual for the L Jetronic fuel injection. Often, you can find them on the internet or you can purchase them from various book sellers.
Here is one that I recommend, from an excellent technical writer. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Fuel-Injection-Engine-Management/dp/0837603005/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3DP6TTSEPC8EY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.yu_fZQX0-Xk9KTAFu6fUVW3FdyhOPVtsTM639qi3_z3GjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.qUC00QAuIwIa8IpmxDVT5j-pxs4ag5pmbEEgAxEShms&dib_tag=se&keywords=Bosch+fuel+injection+technical+manual&qid=1759258650&sprefix=bosch+fuel+injection+technical+manual%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-1 [/quote]


Not really. I am now back home with my notes and a little time.

Unless you are way off on your car. You do not have a L-Jetronic system at all. The MMC discontinued L-Jets for Plus 4s sometime in 1988. You have a COMPLETELY
different system, based on Hitachi componentry a variant of the Hotwire system. Any research on L-Jets will be useless and costly if you buy anything or follow any
advice along those lines. GoMoG does not have much on the fueling system for those cars and there is precious little on the internet. This is a good time to fix that.
I am member of a private group of dealers, owners and legends. We can all address that together. But, as you see, this place is impossible to accomplish that. We
need a different party line.

Whatever you choose. Good luck.

Lorne

Lorne listed the engine as having Bosch L Jetronic. The system that Lorne said was installed on T16 +4s. .. That specific book covers all of the applicable Bosch systems from the Jetronic to the Motronics, and the writer is a proper expert. I have a couple of his other books, and they have proved valuable resources over three decades and are still appropriate to modern systems.

Sven has the car in his possession and can, by looking at the engine and reading the name on the components, can determine if he has a Bosch system. If so, the Probst book is entirely appropriate, and if not, the book is still appropriate. It is full of really useful information on electronic fuel injections, and will give Sven a good background on what he is looking at.

I picked a reference that covers all of the applicable Bosch fuel injections for the +4s. Knowledge is knowledge, regardless of which make it came from. The Morgan used Bosch, and the Rover, Bosch/ Lucas/GEMS/ Hitachi systems as well. Depends on the year, or which engines were in Morgan's inventory 30 years ago. Having a model number for the Hitachi fuel injection would be helpful, but none was offered.

The systems from one company to another usually have licensed components and are not completely different. They all share a common suite of components. Though they may measure fuel by speed density, with an absolute pressure sensor, or use a flapper or hot wire air mass measuring unit, they all have cold start protocols and a similar system of fuel enrichment for starting. A basic understanding of how these systems work will reduce the mystery of electronic fuel injection. Knowledge doesn't damage fuel injection systems. Probst covers all of this in his books.

The Bosch book will explain all of its systems, and there is universal similarity between all of the fuel injections, from all of the manufacturers. Each have the same operating parameters and basic component sets to measure air mass, starting protocols and warm up. Understanding the Bosch systems is really useful in understanding all of the other electronic systems. We are not dealing in programming, but rather components. There may be some differences between methods of idle adjustment or mass air measurement, but nothing that is really that different when there may be a component problem. Sure, some may be hot wire, while others may have a mechanical door, but that is not much of a difference when it comes to things like temp sensors or starting enrichment systems.

There are a couple of different Hitachi systems with hotwire or mechanical MAFs, and there are a couple of books available for those systems as well. Any book that has the V8 Rover systems other than Bosch will have the T16s system as well. Again, there is a universal similarity between the 4 cylinder systems and the V8 systems. Doing a search on the "Rover T16 engine fuel injection manual" will reveal a couple of publications that might be useful.

Here is another Rover reference from TWS that might be helpful, covering both Hitachi and Motronic systems for the Rover V8. Really, there is very little difference in the workings of the V8 fuel injection as compared to the 4 cylinder. They have common cold start systems, hot wire MAFs and determine start and run protocols the same way. The component suite is also similar, if not identical. https://www.thewedgeshop.com/uploads/2/9/8/3/2983741/rover-v8-fuel-injection-systems.pdf
This PDF has lots of component descriptions, some test criteria, and pictures (line drawings, which can be very useful in identifying and testing a specific component).

The UK Rover clubs also have manuals available as PDFs. The newer cars from the late 90s have OBD, which can help. The later manuals will cover that.

GoMog has some fuel injection information, but doesn't seem to contain anything like a proper manual for the later cars with OBD diagnostics.

Here is a shop manual for Rover sedans with the T16. https://www.emanualonline.com/cars/rover/100-series/rover-100-200-400-600-800-series-full-service-repair-manual-1996-2001-emo-27052.html?currency=USD&product_country=US&product_id=27052&placement=&adtype=pla&keyword=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21274120252&gbraid=0AAAAADb9dgy1AsKupAoN1X41Khrrh3bEv&gclid=Cj0KCQjwovPGBhDxARIsAFhgkwQi-nNnsOdyT4t-ATmo5uadeB7GMe_W5mmZu6ChQdkT-yWiIbDR6aQaAk2iEALw_wcB

And... I was just remembering the starting problem I had with my TR8's Rover 3.5 V8 engine with the Lucas system, as I recall. Maybe it was Hitachi, as these machines were specifically for the California market only. Anyway, the problem turned out to be a bad set of ignition wires. That was the only part replaced, and the starting problem was cured. The old wires looked OK, but were in bad shape after about 7 years.
Then there was the starting problem with my Mercedes, where a failing voltage control relay was causing a loss of fuel pressure. It was intermittent... The problem was one of those like the of the Morgan's here, common, and hard to diagnose. 'Turned out to be a voltage control relay. Took less than 90 seconds to fix. It was the first of two Mercedes that I fixed with that problem, the other being my Dad's that developed the same problem, along with a shorted battery cell. Sometimes, the problems are generic.

Gaining knowledge is important. Applying what is known about other fuel injection systems is applicable to anything installed in Morgan, as Morgan didn't use anything that was at all proprietary (they didn't build engines), other than perhaps small bits of emissions programming for the various countries that the cars were offered in. Often, they used the original sedan programming.

So far, a couple of owners have found defective battery isolation switches. There might be other components involved in other cars. This problem of starting 30 year old T16 powered Morgans seems to be common, and likely due to age, perhaps involving common components. Sensors and connectors do age, and I have found the more often than not, the problems are usually simple, from cleaning a connector to fixing a loose ground wire. Starter switches become intermittent after years of twisting. Lots of possibilities that have nothing to do with a specific system, but are simply part of a universal group of parts that can fail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-01 03:27 PM by SJM1.