Morgan +8 Forum

I built headers made from a set of Range Rover headers that came from Hedman years ago. I wanted to go through the frame as I didn't want to cut any more holes in the sheet metal. The engine has a .020 over 3.9 short block, Wiseco forged pistons, a Compe cam, Edelbrock carb on a standard Buick manifold, etc. etc. There is no problem with heat on the MC or starter as I wrapped the head pipes with heat tape. It goes quite well..........

You have a '69 Morgan +8 with a fuel injected Rover engine in "USA" spec? 'Should be a 3.5 liter with SU carbs and 10.5:1 compression.
Or, are you describing an engine not yet in the car.

42,000 miles is not much, even for an old 3.5 liter. Do a compression test, or better, a leak down test first. If it is a nice, tight engine, without excessive oil consumption, no need to take it apart. How is the oil pressure?
Tappet noise may be cured with any number of high detergent additives for that purpose. They actually work (I used Rislone with success, on a very old Rolls Royce (early hydraulic lifter technology), making it so quiet that you could hear the water coursing through the block), and if you just have sludgy lifters, they should quiet down after a few miles. Just run the stuff with fresh oil for 200~500 miles (and get it hot, as on a longer drive), then do another oil change. That should quiet the lifters, if that is where the sound is coming from. With so few miles, it may be some time between oil changes, you may have some gunk here and there.
If the cylinders are good, you can change the cam and lifters. But, I am thinking that this will not be necessary.

'Just thinking about crossovers for the dual exhaust. This is appears to be impossible with my setup, as the 2-into-1 collector is past the frame hole with my headers.

However, with stock exhaust, using the frame pass through, it is possible to install the crossover where the old crossover to the single exhaust went, just behind the oil pan. The real problem here is how to fabricate it, as it would have to be detachable so the pipe could be fitted. Welding in place requiring a saw to disassemble is not an option. A small section with the outlet and the crossover opening would have to be fabricated on each side, at the point where the pipe passes through the frame. Maybe bolt-together flanges would do the trick.

There would be problems with the pipe junctions around the brake and clutch master cylinders, requiring heat shield. Also, like the single exhaust +8, the firewall is going to get hot on the passenger's side.

The ideal setup would be an "X" pipe, but that would require exhaust running from the header to the X pipe, then back to the frame pass through. Not a fabrication nightmare, but definitely a disturbing dream (and perhaps not enough room for 4 1.75" pipes and a central "X". However, the sound would be quite pleasing, as would be the power increase. My A Sedan street Mustng had an X pipe, and the sound was pleasing, not unlike that of a Maserati GT V8.

Corsa Exhaust also makes systems that are near zero back pressure, but are pleasing to the ear, lacking the usual drone. They control sound by frequency blanking. The mufflers can be a bit complex, but that part is inside. My experience with Corsa systems includes Corvettes and the droning early Vipers. They really work. Corsa is market driven, with each system (including the muffler) being vehicle specific. They would need a Morgan to develop a system.

The Morgan is levitated, and the PB penetrant is working on the rusty nuts and bolts. Disasembly tomorrow.

Gretings... Jan, you need room? Time to dry-sump

Tim

Been there, done that. But on a Morgan, it won't help. The problem really isn't the sump, but rather the frame. The pan doesn't really drop much below the frame. It isn't in the way. The reality is that the exhaust pipes have to run outside the frame, either passing through it, or over it. There is already a cross over setup on my car, as that is what it had from the factory, with the early single exhaust. It would be possible to do an X crossover, through the frame, but it is a complication that has not much ROI. The left side would cross over and exit out the right side, while the right would exit through the left frame pass through . The two pipes would "X" in the middle via a couple of oval holes in the parallel pipes, welded together (forming the very narrow "X". This would be easier with the cast iron manifolds. When I am under the car, I will look at the space. It could be do-able using 1 3/4" ~2" pipes. The fabrication trick would be the "over and under" on one side. So, a lot of work. It would sound nice, though...

So, it's headers in stainless, through the valence, over the frame, and down the outside, exit in front of the rear wheels. Pictures coming.

Well into the "sausage making" that is the header installation on my narrow body Morgan.
Here are a couple of images of what was removed. This is the RH header, a strangulated 4 into 1 that led into a small diameter two into one constriction that has to be worth a few HP once the bypass is complete.

As for the lovely stainless steel header...

IT FITS!

As you can see, the header is in place, and the screws go in finger tight. There is still some work to do around the valence pass through before I put the stiffening frame around the outlet. The warnings about fit "and the narrower chassis of your Morgan" proved to be false, and the pipes fit as expected. Note that the same fellow who told me that under no circumstances would the pipes fit my "narrow" Morgan, told me that my Morgan was not "narrow"... Anyway, if you are going to do something like this, talk to someone who has actually done, or participated, in the planned work with the listed parts.

About the valence and the wings... I was told a while ago by a very experienced Morganist that I should remove the wings to do the header installation. He made a good point. I didn't listen (and don't regret my decision, but... The guy knew what he was talking about.
If you are going to do this sort of job yourself, you might consider removal of the wings to do the installation, as it will make cutting of the valence pass through a little easier, but with a lot more screws, nuts and bolts. I elected to do this with the wings on the car, and the degree of difficulty increased, even with power tools. It's bit awkward, but... I am going to do the LH side the same way. I will better describe the technique that I used, later. Let us consider that this is sausage making, and it is best not to see how it was done, or what went into it.

The headers fit tight, just as the original manifold did, but the 2 into 1 collector ends up a straight shot down the middle of the running board, in perfect position for the flex coupling and the muffler with turn out.

Food for Thought:

If you are considering doing a header setup using the frame pass through ports, you can see with the single pipe setup that there is a crossover that goes behind the oil pan. This could fit an "X" pipe, which would be superior to a crossove , but you would have to custom make it as it would be narrow angle (angle is not a factor, but the interface between the pipes is). Not difficult, but an intriguing project. I can't do it with the setup I am installing, as there are two collector pipes, outside the frame. But you can imagine how the left and right pipe might cross over and meet in the middle before exiting on both sides. This would improve flow even with the small diameter pipes from the headers. I have had an X pipe V8, and they sound very nice as well as put out more power than just a right angle crossover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-02-01 02:00 PM by SJM1.

Half way for the headers. Right side installed. Yes, the header is on the correct (RH side). Yes, I was a bit confused as well. Then, I checked the catalog a few more times to confirm my original markings. 'Looks good so far.

'Time to cut up the other side. I hope that it doesn't take another week, but then I have to move the brake lines a little.

And, I need a new olive for the new oil pressure line.

With the RH header installed and buttoned up, the starter back in its hole (that thing weighs a ton. 'Need to get a smaller, lighter one), and the frames riveted in place, it's time to do the LH side.

This looked a little more difficult, with the steering shaft in the way, but after looking at it for a day or two, I finally figured out how to hook it around the steering shaft, and down into the engine compartment. The brake lines were moved down lower on the frame rail. Additional measurements were taken, and the area for the pass through hole have been marked out. Time to knock another hole in the Morgan.

While I was taking everything apart, I replaced the oil pressure line to the One Shot. I am waiting for the proper olive to arrive so that I can put the compression fitting together. For now, the oil line will be the same as original plastic line. The one in the car was likely 30~50 years old, and snapped like a piece of dried out spaghettini. The plastic will do until I get the adapters from BSP to AN and install the cool black -3 teflon line. I am keeping the One Shot for the time being. No leaks, and it works. The new throttle cable will be one of the new stainless/teflon lined replacements, cut to fit.

This week, I will get the flex pipes welded to their new connectors in preparation for the muffler installation. Maybe, if I am lucky, I will have it on the road this weekend. 'Depends on how hard it is to cut the new hole in the valence. Hopefully, easier than the last one.

I can finally get to tightening the rear most bolts on the oil pan. Maybe stop the remaining leak. Most of the fasteners on the engine were loose, the manifold bolts being nearly finger tight, easily removed with a 1/4" drive, short handle ratchet. Now, everything is torqued to 18 lb.ft, as prescribed in the manual for the UNC blots.

Jan, I've forgotten, how are you finishing the valence holes? Are you adding a doubler or rolling the edge, or using some other technique? I rolled the edges of the holes on mine; I was surprised how easy that was to do.
Duncan

I used a doubler, riveted in place, inside and outside. The inside doubler is full circle, and attaches to the frame as well. Cutting and folding seemed to be a huge problem with all the body work and engine in place.

The doubler was created in a CAD program, then sent to Send Cut Send. I had 4 made, with the rivet holes in place, so that it would be easy to install on both sides. I think that the total cost was about $50. Cheap, and I got the parts back in 4 days.

I had been told that the best way to do the install was to remove the wings and the valences. I thought that would be a bit much, and cut the hole with everything in place. It was not fun, but then... neither would be taking the wings and valences off. I only have one more side to do, but I am getting pretty good at the hole cutting.

Now that i figured out how to wiggle the header into place around the steering shaft, I should have it all done by the weekend.

With the headers fitted to both sides, it's time to finish the exhaust pipes and mufflers with their hangers.
Mufflers are 24" long, 2.25 diameter, straight through. 90º turn outs for the exhaust, in front of the rear wheels.
More pictures when I start hanging the rest of the system. Here is the muffler mock up.
No, the header pipes are not below the frame (it's an illusion). They are right where they should be. Perfect fit.
The flex connectors allow the mufflers to be solid mounted without rubber isolators. I am using the supplied mounting bushings, with my own pipe hangers.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-02-23 07:51 PM by SJM1.

Finally, the muffler assemblies are welded up. This is the left side. The right has already hanging, waiting for the mounts to be positioned and drilled. , The mounts will be bolted to the chassis tomorrow. The outlets are currently polished stainless, as that was the only pipe I could find at a good deal. It will look a bit less shiny after I brush it. The pipes have an increasing diameter along their length, starting at 2" expanding to 2.5". The outlet just protrudes past the running board in front of the rear tire.

It all sits above the bottom of the frame, and, BTW, fits just fine. If you want to use this header system on your early +8, it fits. THERE ARE NO CLEARANCE ISSUES WHATSOEVER. Also, the 4 into 2 into 1 configuration really doesn't need a cross over. More after start up tomorrow afternoon.

There are a couple of advantages to the over the frame installation, including access to the back oil pan bolts, elimination of any protective heat shield for the starter, along with ease of access, and no heat shield required for the brake and clutch master cylinder. Also, the interior doesn't heat up as it did with the old single exhaust crossover running in front of the right side firewall.

Why do you think you need heat shields at the starter and hydraulics? I have header wrap around my head pipes and you can touch them when hot........

If you go through the frame, the pipes are close to all the critical parts. The later +8s have heat shields in these areas from the factory, while those with over the frame exhaust systems don't require them. Also, header wrapping is not really a great solution. Cracks can form in the headers, which can't be seen (mild steel headers need regular inspections), and antifreeze (antifreeze burns quite nicely), oil or fuel can soak the matting, leading to fires. The fabric heat shielding on my starer was oil soaked, as under previous ownership the valve covers leaked, and the little filters sprayed oil over the engine. I installed a breather/separator system to cure that problem.

I had used header wrap on my Lotish for a decade, but got tired of having to re weld the header on a nearly yearly basis. I finally welded a couple of studs to the header, and installed a heat shield of thin alloy. This worked better than the header wrap at keeping the giant Weber cool, and the header has not cracked for many years. The other Lotish replicas I built have this setup, and at least one has made it to a decade without cracking the header.

Header wrap is popular, because it is easy, requires little fabrication and does a good job of heat mitigation. However, it does present a problem with inspections and the occasional fire. I have been qualified on both of these problems, so I just don't use the stuff anymore, unless there is no other solution.

Well, no solution is "great", even rattly heat shields but since the wrap has been on my car for close to thirty years without being soaked in oil, gasoline, or antifreeze or any other problem, I think I will just leave it as is and thank my lucky starts.