Morgan +8 Forum

I acquired the Morgan because I wanted, well, a Morgan +8, in its purest form, free from current emissions laws and early safety laws. No side lights, awkward bumpers, head rests or dash padding. Heck, I didn't even want a polished wood instrument panel.

Absolutely, I have had four Miatas and still own one when I don't want to drive my Morgan. I actually like the Moss box and the Cam Gears steering box.
I don't need another Miata.

I purchase mine because I used to pass by the Morgan dealership here in Vancouver, BC and drool over the cars in the display window.
I especially coveted the Plus 8 that the owner, JB Stern, used to drive to the local race track, compete, and then drive home.
I am not into concourse collecting - I like driving and performance.
I spent much earlier years driving British cars that I could afford, later I moved to German sports cars.
My current hobby rides include a 2009 BMW M3, a 2005 BMW 335i, a 2005 Ferrari 612, and a new Porsche 356 replica in addition to my Plus 8.
I have been spoiled by smooth, quiet shifting transmissions with synchromesh but I can adapt to the buckboard ride of the Morgan, the need for strong arms to steer it and the contortions needed for my 76 year old body to get in and out of it.
There are plenty of great roads to drive where I keep it and no need for the top during the season I am there.
It has become a bucket list wish fulfilled - a revival of my days driving Britain’s quirky hands on roadsters.

The first car that I remember was a Morgan 3 wheeler around 1956, at International Motors, then the Renault and Morgan dealer in West Los Angeles. Dad was buying a Dauphine for Mom. We visited the Morgan dealer a few times for service back then, and I loved looking at the Morgans. That sort of stuck for 65 years or so before I bought the +8. I had seen the original US +8 (the Road and Track car) in '68 when Scott McMillan dropped by our office for X Rays (I was a tech then). That yellow and black car stuck with me as well. I rediscovered that same car in my neighborhood, owned by a nearby neighbor. It was still magnificent. Only 18 more years to wait to get my own.
In the intervening years, I owned some British stuff, a few Alfas (all new), a new 911 SC, the Renault R5 Turbo (for the next 34 years), a hot rod Saleen Mustang (16 years), the E Type that I restored, and a bunch of other stuff. I still wanted a +8, specifically an early one and a few years ago, finally got one.

What I know about the Morgan is that mine would benefit from a better steering box. I have not expended maximum effort to rebuild the Cam Gear unit yet. That will happen when I have the engine out for the rebuild (and finally get those boxes of engine parts out of my living room). There is a rear axle tube shock conversion to install (Morgan did this in production a few years later), along with a Panhard rod to keep the axle sort of centered and stop the sideways hop over bumps while keeping the axle centered if I want to run 205 tires, along with a set of trailing arms to keep the springs from winding up on acceleration with the extra 'hundred or so HP from the freshened engine.
In front, I have a set of camber plates, the better to save the expensive Avon CR6ZZ tires in the canyons. The chassis is pretty primitive, but it will benefit from newer shocks (double adjustable up front) while retaining the original spring rates and ride height. I intend to keep the damper blades up front when I change the camber (requiring a new tie rod that is a couple of inches longer).

The character of the car won't change. It will still be direct, probably ride slightly better (improved rebound control with the new shocks), and be quite a bit quicker. The acceleration will match the sound. Handling will have a bit less understeer, as the front tires will have better contact with the road, even when the body rolls.

I too am in my mid 70s...

My plan also includes the Quaife synchro 4 speed mainly for the quicker shifting. The chassis already has a scuttle hoop to stiffen it up a little, along with the rear shock conversion with also acts as a frame stiffener in the rear. This will preserve the frame and the body tub as chassis flex will be reduced somewhat. Most of this stuff has been included in later model Morgans, but I get to retain the narrow body, and the freedom from DOT and Emissions laws. It will still be a Morgan, but just a little bit refined, and a little bit tighter. The weight distribution will still be 49/51 with me in the car, and zero wedge, each side of the car having the same cross weight. Oh, and I have a twin master cylinder conversion to install. Separate braking systems front and rear, and a much reduced cost of rebuild should a master cylinder fail, along with the ability to fine tune the brake balance. The original brakes will stay with the car as I think that they are large enough. If not, the fronts are easily upgraded. Another advantage of the twin master cylinder setup is that I can install remote master cylinder reservoirs up in he engine compartment. instead of down in the bottom... Easier service.

The Gemmer steering gear does lighten the steering effort a bit, while transmitting better road feel and having far less friction. The ratio is about the same, so no difference there, but the feel will be much improved.
For me, this is a choice involving dollars and where they do the most good. I am thinking gearbox at the moment with a rebuild Cam Gear steering.

I know... I can't leave it alone, especially when some of the changes are aided by available components from Morgan and the Morgan aftermarket. But the changes are not out of character with the original car. No 5 link rear with coil springs. No SLA front end, no Chevy engine and wheels several inches wider. Just a slightly more controlled suspension, smoother, more accurate steering and a bunch more power to better enjoy the chassis. The geometry remains as HFS intended, and the car stays light and somewhat flexible.

The cool part of a Morgan is that you have options, even on the earlier cars, and the options don't really have any negative effect on the car's value, while they do have a positive effect on driving enjoyment. The goal is not to make it modern (you can buy a new +4 for that, and it is an amazing machine, this modern Morgan), but to take off a sharp edge or two, yet preserve the Morgan's original intent. Taking the kick in the butt out of the ride and reducing the steering effort doesn't hurt. It just leaves us feel of the original car, and the view over the bonnet s it sweeps across the landscape when you turn in to a corner apex, and that nice feel that you get when you can actually steer with the throttle. I mean, I love the Miata, but when you have a Morgan...? With a V8?

With the available options, I can make my early +8 as good as it can possibly be.

Currently, I am driving a '03 Merc W211 E500 (80,000 miles, showroom fresh), 2.5 Mazda 3 hatch, Renault R5 Turbo 2, The "Lotish" (Westfield 11/1380 BMC A w/Datsun 5 speed), and the '69 Morgan +8. Quite a range...Now if I could only afford a Lucid...

Mik,

Until you get your transmission swap done you might try this method to get the cleanest 1 to 2 shift out of your Moss gearbox. Pull the lever out of first and slightly past neutral but don't pull it all the way into full engagement of second gear - then pause for a fraction of a second -- then pull it home into second gear. You should feel slight increase of pressure once you're past neutral when the synchro mechanism is being pushed together by the lever but before the gear teeth engage.

This 1-and-a-2 movement gives second gear synchro a chance to do some work and unless your synchros are extremely loose it may work to stop the grinding without having to double clutch.

My Moss box is about as good as I can get it after several rebuilds, which included Fred Sisson's proposal to grind the radial grooves slightly deeper on the inside of the synchro cones, but I still use the 1-and-a-2 method when the gearbox is cold or when shifting at higher rpm.

Duncan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-16 06:39 AM by DuncanCharlton.

Thanks for the tip, Duncan - I’ll give it a whirl.
So far as the helical kit for the Moss box goes, I believe it is a four speed that provides a synchro 1st gear and improved overall shifting.
I have contacted Quaife Engineering but they advised me that this kit is now distributed by a company in Britain called Driveline Motorsport.
This company does not have a website and they gave me an intermediary contact call JB Engineering Co. which does gear machining.
I have e-mailed them for assistance and will advise you and Jan when I hear back from them or Driveline.
Cheers,
Mik

I use that technique shifting my Moss, but what it does is slow the shift, a whole lot compared to a slick shifting Quaife 'box, of which I have had lots of experience on other cars with their gears, including a couple of T9 gearboxes with the Long 1st, semi helical and the dog ring engaged, straight cut 5 speed.
I am sure that with the Quaife equipped Moss, a straight, ordinary force, pull on the lever will give engagement, rather than a GRUNCH! Of cours, the satisfaction of a clean Moss shift would be gone... But I don't mind. There are other cars with weak synchros to drive...

The problem I have run into is that JB engineering almost never answers inquiries from the US (I am two years into this, making regular inquiries). I believe that they were in receivership for a while, then taken over by Driveline Motor Sport. What may be necessary is for a number of us to contact Quaife directly to get some useful pricing and availability information.

If anyone makes it to the PRI trade show, go to the Quaife booth and inquire there. That usually gets a quicker response for we North American customers.

It used to be that JB Engineering (Jack and Billy Bellingers) was the company that sold the Moss gear sets; I think they are the ones that developed it.

http://jb-engineering.co.uk/

Duncan

That gear set interests me. Is that something a back yard mechanic could pull off? Would I need a Moss manual or does it come with sufficient instructions. Any idea whether it is as at least as robust as the stock gears? Has anyone here made the change? Hate to say it, but Christmas isn't that far away.

Dennis

The gears are stronger, quieter and it has more modern synchros on all 4 gears. I am sure that it is vastly superior to the old Moss.

I would suggest a Moss gearbox manual (From Jaguar would do, as they used the same gearbox) to install the gear set. It is listed as being a "direct fit" on Quaife's site. If there are any specific differences, Quaife will have proper documentation.

You should be familiar with gearbox assembly, as there are lots of little balls and springs, and everything has to go together precisely and in order. Not much room for error... Don't ask me how I know, but I learned back in the late 60s... With a Moss gearbox.

However, you still need to get JB Engineering to acknowledge your inquiry.

Dennis,

The Moss gearbox has been described as "a Chinese puzzle" by which, I think is meant that things simply need to be disassembled in the proper order. A Moss gearbox was the first one I ever disassembled and now I've done some Ford gearboxes (for a Morgan 4/4) and some Jeep gearboxes. All are fit together using the same principles.

I first used a copy of Fred Sisson's "A Morgan Bedside Reader" which describes the work in clear terms and using simple tools, with a few simple cautions for the garage mechanic, such as "disassemble the synchro hubs inside a rag inside a cardboard box" so that the sprung parts don't shoot off into the deepest, darkest, least accessible part of your workshop. The only specialty tool I used was one I made myself from a large hose clamp, which I used to install the synchro balls and springs into the synchro hub. There are a few specs missing from his essay, such as layshaft end float and clearances on the mainshaft, but I got these from a Jaguar manual, which describes the process from beginning to end. There might be a few slight differences having to do with Morgan using different alloy front, rear and top covers but the "insidey bits" are identical). I have an electronic version of this I can send to anyone who wants to try their hand at this. One bit left out of both manuals was this: there's probably no need to buy new synchro springs if your synchro action is weak -- just shim them, reassemble the hub and re-measure the effort it takes to engage/disengage (using a bathroom scale and a drill press is the easiest way). By the way, there are no replaceable synchro rings in a Moss gearbox.

Duncan

Thanks for the replies guys. Jan, do you plan on doing the swap yourself?

Dennis

Hi Duncan,
Transmissions are far outside of my skill set but I’m sure my mechanic would appreciate any guidance available.
I’d be much obliged if you could send me the link you described.
Cheers,
Mik

Maybe. I rebuilt a Moss with a chipped cluster in '69... Long time ago.
I know a couple of transmission specialists locally. One of them did my Datsun gearbox for the Lotish.
What I really want to know is how much does the gear set cost. I know that labor to assemble it will be less than $500. Maybe only $300. Not bad. However, if the gears are $5000.... I'll still be double clutching.

I am going to try Quaife reps here in the US, if I don't hear from JB in the UK.

I agree Jan,
Knowing what the kit costs and its availability is the first step in the process.
I’ll keep you posted if. I get any info and hope you will share anything you obtain.
Cheers,
Mik

So Billy Bellinger finally got back to me. The cost for the gearbox here in the US, sans shipping and tariff is about $10,000 (£7930 to be more exact, plus another $1500 tariff/duty). They also want £400 for shipping. I am wondering how much weight they are actually shipping for that money. Maybe if I had that much disposable income, but I don't.

I remember one of my Morgan racer friends telling me a couple of years ago that the 'box conversion was around $12,000 (shipping the entire gearbox across the Atlantic and back), so nothing has really changed.

I am pretty sure that I could do the installation myself, but not for $10,000 in parts. I could probably sell my early +8 and buy another Morgan with a 5 speed (and rack and pinion or a Gemmer steering box), and still have $10,000 or more left over, but it would not be quite the same... I don't want to start over on another car, and have yearly emissions to deal with as well.

Ok, so I can still install the Gemmer steering box, and the twin master cylinder brakes, re stitch the leather seat squabs and stuff them with memory foam and still have about $7000 left over. 3 beats 10 any day...And the car is still lmproved. And it will be as I wanted it in the first place. Plenty of money left over for more CR6ZZ tires.

Sure, a proper, smooth shifting 4 speed would be an improvement, but not for that money. If I am not careful, I could end up with 6 figures in a Trad... No need for that. The car will be fine with a fresh engine, fresh chassis, low friction steering and easy to service brakes. And, I won't be upside down in it a few years down the road.

My engine rebuild is costing far less than $10K. The gearbox is fine (such as it, is for a Moss...) and doesn't need anything but maybe a gasket. if I want to attempt to eliminate the drip.

I can live with that.