The Pub

I came to the USA in 1999 with work and although I have been back a few times, last I visited my home town Bromsgrove was 2007 sad to hear of the demise of the pheasant Inn. Every Friday night the lads from the factory used to do the Pickersleigh Shake dance during the closing hour . Oh well another historical place gone. I admit the win was also due to a bit of luck. My memory is hazy but my father was miserable as sin that day

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I am always OK............. the trouble is with the others :-)

The real achievement of TOK and its drivers was not winning the class but completing the event -- most entrants were DNFs--and finishing well in a field of more powerful cars.

Yep, they finished 13th, with only 18 finishing overall - although places 14-18 were taken by sub 1600cc cars (16-18 were all under 1000cc). Over 35 were DNS or DNF.

From Alderson & Chapman "The Lawrence Tune Years"


In February 1961 the Build sheet was laid down for a new car for Chris Lawrence with an aluminium high-line body. Chassis #4840. Body 3648.
In May 1961 this car was registered XRX1

In December 1961 Chris sold the original 1956 TOK258 to Pip Arnold.
Chris kept the registration TOK258 which was transferred to chassis #4840 ( Which had been XRX1).
The 1956 car was re-registered XRX1.

In February 1962 the factory fitted a low line body to TOK258 (Chassis #4840). Body number 3988
This is the 1962 LeMans chassis


At the end of 1963 Chris sold TOK258 to Adrian Dance.
Chris kept the registration TOK258 and the car was re-registered as JHX142B.
As the car was sold at the end of 1963 its possible that it wasn't re-registered until 1964 which would have been a B plate

So, built in 1961 and registered JHX142B in 1964

As I said earlier we are waiting for one sheep to jump the creek

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I am always OK............. the trouble is with the others :-)

Steve Schefbauer

This Morgan is not TOK 258 and is owned by Murray Smith. It has been and still is for sale at Automotive Restorations Inc in Stratford, CT for I think $250,000.
One Morgan Historian who should know said if it were TOK258 the price would be closer to $1 Million.
Jonathan Kinghorn is quite correct in his diplomatic article on the true TOK258.

That is why still on eBay (at $250,000) as the ones who know Morgan well, will avoid it like the plague at that price. May be at $150K it would be OK . It is waiting for the gullible punter. I would really love it to sell as the price of our Morgan will automatically shoot up. I said earlier it needs one sheep to jump across the creek for the rest to follow suit.

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I am always OK............. the trouble is with the others :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-13 11:07 AM by Broadcaster.

I seem to recall that UK registrations were not by the calendar year, but ran from August 1, so the B registration would have commenced August 1, 1963 and ended July 31 1964.
Not all UK districts used the date letter suffix then. The following C year was the first in which all UK districts used the system. My first car was a Triumph Herald, JWC 569C, registered in 1965. The letters usually indicate the district in which the car was registered, in my case West Central (London).

From what I can understand JHX142B (1962 LeMans chassis # 4840) was, in 1962, registered as TOK258 (Originally XRX1 before it was re-registered as TOK258 and then as JHX142
According the the UK Drivers and Vehicles licensing Agency (DVLA) the car is showing as still in the in the UK.
But has not been on the road since November 1984 (road tax due 1 November 1984).

Yes the UK Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA) does show TOK258 as having a build and registration date of 1956 making it the first TOK258.
The car is currently taxed until March 2024.
Interestingly I believe that this car was re-registered as XRX1 when sold to Pip Arnold in 1961 and again in 1963 as 405FXO when Pip used XRX1 on his new SS.

The debate is a very interesting one from a few aspects.

I personally think there is something fishy about this. If the actual Holy Grail car was around, do you think guys like Petersen Museum would have left it for sale for over 2 years? ...and many many more questions. Additionally through my life I have come to conclusion that if a falsehood has been repeated enough times it it gets confused to be a fact. Knowing the reputation of the folks surrounding this, what would be the situation, if this car sells (which I hope it does), and a few years later the true TOK258 appears. The famous Bentley # 1 Court case https://www.gomog.com/articles/no1judgement.html comes to mind although slightly different scenario.

Let's imagine like I said earlier the falsehood keeps being repeated and the car eventually sells to someone who has more money than sense, It would help me personally as the price of my car and in general older Morgans, which have been stagnant for so long will creep up, especially the ones with hard top and many more racing features.

Maybe this is presented itself to be a good opportunity for a ploy to get price of Morgans to go up, which in general will also benefit at the dealers who want to become millionaires on the back of the Morgans. I am sure you know a few.

Morgan is a car that throughout its life has been a very low volume produced car , it goes back to early 1900, it is still being produced, it has a Le Mans history and belong to a bygone era, Many famous drivers took the podium as winners in a Morgan, so why is it so under-appreciated.

The sale of this car at $250,000 will boost the price of the older Morgans, which would benefit me (not that mine is for sale).

My analogy of the sheep at the creek still stands . Where is the sheep to jump the creek first so the rest follow suit?

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I am always OK............. the trouble is with the others :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-19 11:09 AM by Broadcaster.

This is what happens when a brand has pretend look a likes throughout it's portfolio and in the market, confusion is caused which can have both a positive and negative effect as people decide what is real or not. The unscrupulous will always thrive.

Amen

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I am always OK............. the trouble is with the others :-)

Broadcaster - Exactly what falsehood keeps being repeated?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-03-19 05:02 PM by Kevin Morton.

It is clear what the chassis number of the Le Mans winning car was. But is this the car? Is it the original chassis? Lots of questions.